No Substitutions! - Keeping it Real at Terroni

Posted by Sheryl Kirby in italian, restaurant profile on August 26, 2008 at 8:07 am

One of the great things about the blogosphere is that anyone with access to a computer can have their say on any topic they’re interested in. The downside to this is that opinions are often voiced without anything to back them up, and bloggers generally aren’t much interested in presenting both sides of the story. A couple of recent articles about the southern Italian restaurant Terroni spawned a lot of opinions and comments (some good, most critical) about the policies that restaurant chain has in place to ensure the authenticity of the food it serves. The blogger, and readers posting comments, ranted about being refused everything from cheese to butter to water. Yet, oddly, it didn’t look as if anyone had approached the management at Terroni to find out why these policies were in place.

Since I’m always interested in the back of house intricacies of the restaurant business – the whys and wherefores of service - I sat down recently with Terroni owner Cosimo Mammoliti to find out what all the fuss was about.

What’s important to note from the start is that Terroni has always billed itself as serving “traditional southern Italian food”, which differs from what is typically served in the northern or central regions of that country. In southern Italy, pasta is usually dried (although Terroni makes most of theirs fresh daily), the growing season is longer and hotter, and the tomato reigns supreme. Seafood and lamb are more popular than beef, and cheeses, with the exception of mozzarella, tend to be quite firm. Butter is almost non-existent, and cream sauces unheard of. Broccoli raab (aka. rapini) is a favourite winter vegetable.

Unfortunately for Terroni staff, customers unfamiliar with southern Italian food aren’t always aware of these parameters, and while Toronto prides itself on being a multi-cultural city, we still tend to think of cuisines as being mono-cultural, with no differentiation for regionality.

Mammoliti points out that each time they open a new location, the complaints about the restaurant’s policies begin anew. Longtime customers who have been filling seats since Mammoliti and (now deceased) partner Paolo Scoppio opened the first location on Queen Street West in 1992 know what to expect. But as the company expands and attracts new customers who are not familiar with Terroni’s traditional menu, the confusion, and the complaints start up again.

Mammoliti offers two reasons for the strict policies, and they tend to be the same reasons that almost any restaurant would offer.

First, all the Toronto locations, as well as the location in Los Angeles, are busy. The kitchens (which at the Queen West location is literally an open-style galley) are small, and during a rush, any substitution is a mistake waiting to happen.

“When we were a smaller place, it was easier,” says Mammoliti. “But mistakes happen when you’re doing substitutions, then the kitchen has to remake it. Then if we do the substitution and then they don’t like it, we’ve got to make them something else.”

The overall number of covers also affects the ability of Terroni’s chefs to easily accommodate changes. “We serve a lot of people every day. If every person made a special request, it would be too difficult,” explains Mammoliti. “It would slow everything down.”

“Then you get into the issue of what is the difference between a right substitution and a wrong substitution,” he says, pointing out that the restaurant will not serve its fish dishes with parmigiano, despite customers requesting it. “We try to nip this in the bud by including information on the menu – seafood pasta is not served with parmigiano because the cheese will destroy the delicate taste of the fish.”

Some customers accept this reasoning, but others are put off by the fact that other Italian restaurants may serve the dish this way, or offer the cheese despite reservations about how it alters the flavour of the dish, simply to keep the customer happy.

“A lot of other restaurants do what the customer wants,” Mammoliti explains. “They’re jeopardizing their whole menu to give the customer what they want. But what you’re cooking, it’s your heritage – we started off small and now that we’ve grown, the new customers don’t understand what we’re doing.”

“These recipes are traditional – it’s how I was taught to cook. I used to make the pizza, I worked 10 years in the kitchen when we first opened. Even if you put another guy on the line, substitutions can throw off the whole kitchen.” Mammoliti points out that Terroni offers a large menu that can accommodate most dietary concerns, and as his own son has food allergies, he understands the frustration this can cause, so Terroni generally will make minor substitutions to accommodate food allergies.

When I ask about the refusal to serve butter with bread, he laughs, pointing out that they’re not withholding the stuff to be difficult – there’s just no butter in the restaurant, period. “We never had butter from day one. We might have butter in the pastry kitchen but we don’t cook with butter, it’s not traditional. We’ve always used olive oil, which is better for you.”

Mammoliti imports the olive oil from a friend’s plantation exclusively for Terroni, and admits to being offended when customers want to mix it with balsamic vinegar. While the balsamic Terroni uses for dressing is a good quality, it is not the super high-end 12-year-old product purists clamor for, and Mammoliti feels that mixing it with the (admittedly amazing!!) olive oil they use would ruin the integrity of the ingredients.

He does tell me that staff are being updated on how to deal with customer requests with training courses that will help them to explain the differences between southern and northern Italian cuisine more succinctly. The menu as well includes some information that explains how the food is served – for instance pizzas arrive uncut, olives are served with their pits.

Mammoliti’s enthusiasm and dedication to his product and his restaurants become apparent the more we talk. “We try to keep traditional and authentic, slow food or whatever you want to call it. We’re trying to keep it to the way we’ve been doing it for hundreds of years.” To that effect, he explains that Terroni brings in flour from Italy, as well as regional organic tomatoes that are double what they’d cost if sourced locally. The restaurant also imports their wines directly. The buying power of four locations allows them to bring in exclusive products not available anywhere else.

Ultimately, Mammoliti hopes that customers will give the regional cuisine a chance, and sit down in his restaurant with an open mind and trust that he’s designed a menu with the intention of showcasing the very best attributes of true southern Italian food and the quality of its ingredients . “I don’t want customers to take it personally, it’s not an ego thing,” he assures me. “I’m really just trying to do what my ancestors have been doing for hundreds and hundreds of years – trying to keep what they’ve been doing alive.”

Photos by Stephanie Palmer - from the Terroni website.

19 Comments so far

  1. Jacquilynne on August 26, 2008 at 9:04 am

    It all sounds very good coming out of his mouth, but I've sat beside a table that spent 10 minutes trying to get the waitress to agree to make a specific pizza without the mushrooms because the guest was allergic and it would not fly. He might feel substitutions for allergies are okay, but he's obviously got his waitstaff so terrified of asking for substitutions at all, that they won't do even that.

  2. suresh on August 26, 2008 at 9:39 am

    lol @ mushrooms. Sounds vaguely familiar :)

    I've been to Terroni many many times, and I applaud their strict policy to adhere to tradition. I can understand that a line needs to be drawn when it comes to food allergies, however, the rest of the reasons that Mammoliti has provided are good enough for me.

    Thorough article, covers every question I had about this debate....thanks for doing all the detective work for the rest of us.

  3. eatereater123 on August 26, 2008 at 9:43 am

    While this article serves a purpose, it would have been better to talk to a few restaurants rather than just Terroni. Many resto's attempt the "no substitution rule" but few succeed.

    While Terroni is going to try to be accomodating for allergies, I've seen people fake an allergy to avoid certain foodstuffs like olives, like basil.

  4. Teena on August 26, 2008 at 11:35 am

    I'm of two minds with this.

    One is that it's my money I'm spending and I should get what I want.

    On the other hand, if you don't like a restaurant's policies, then don't go!

  5. Sheryl Kirby on August 26, 2008 at 11:56 am

    Jacquilynne: As the piece notes, the staff are going through training courses to better deal with special request situations. I expect that will rectify the problem. I'm also wondering why you would attribute the difficult attitude of a server to the owner? Maybe the server was just bitchy for reasons of their own.

    Suresh - Agreed. I give him props for sticking to his guns.

    Eatereater: The point of the article was to address complaints about Terroni specifically, not the generally policy or reaction to requests for substitutions in the restaurant industry as a whole. As noted in the piece, Terroni offers a pretty huge menu that really does offer something for everyone. I was vegetarian and allergic to dairy for many years, and I always managed to eat there without it being a huge drama.

    Teena - It is your money, and you can have anything you want - providing it's on the very extensive menu. If you want a custom pizza with all of your favourite things on it and none of the stuff you think is icky - there are plenty of pizza joints that will do that. It just won't be authentic southern Italian cuisine, which is what people go to Terroni for.

  6. NF on August 26, 2008 at 12:04 pm

    People who go to an Italian restaurant expecting to find butter clearly have no concept of Italian cuisine.

    On the other hand, if Terroni was the best dining establishment this side of Calabria (it's not even the best pizza joint in Toronto), I'd fully understand their sometimes draconian policies regarding substitutions. Don't want to serve your pizza pre-sliced? Fine, send it out with a fork and a suitable knife and let the guest do with it what they please. But if I'm ordering a pizza that contains four ingredients I love but one I'm allergic to, you remove the one ingredient that might kill me. And while I understand wanting to maintain the integrity of a dish, if I, the paying customer, want a sprinkle of parmesean on my linguine vongole, that's exactly what I expect.

    Good restauranteurs understand the balance between having passion for their art and ensuring the customer goes away happy.

  7. Sheryl Kirby on August 26, 2008 at 12:11 pm

    NF - I've always been given a fork and suitable knife with my pizza there. Always.

    Agree with you on the allergy issue, but not the Parmesan. The dish should be served as it's intended. I also don't buy that "I'm the paying customer" complaint. If you go to the opera, you can't expect them to sing the greatest hits of The Eagles just because you've paid for a ticket and that's what you'd like to hear.

  8. NF on August 26, 2008 at 12:20 pm

    Sheryl: Sorry, I wasn't implying their knives are faulty. In fact, that was an argument in their favour... they don't want to pre-slice the pizzas, and they don't. So, they properly equip the customer to do it themselves.

    As for the parm debate, I don't think your opera analogy is accurate. Of course it'd be unreasonable to expect the performers to sing the Eagles. But if I want to sit there and supplement my experience of their performance of Tosca by silently listening to Hotel California on my iPod in the relative darkness of the theatre, that's my choice so long as I'm not interfering with others' enjoyment.

    Similarly, if Terroni wants to prepare the dish and bring it to my table without cheese, fine. But I know they have cheese, because I can see them giving it to other diners. If I want to supplement my enjoyment of what they've prepared with parm, that should be my choice.

  9. Sheryl Kirby on August 26, 2008 at 12:34 pm

    Hey NF - We're getting our analogies crossed.

    Gotcha on the knife issue - it did kind of read as if you felt they were leaving you stranded.

    And fair enough on the Eagles comments - how about this - you don't go to see Don Giovanni and expect to hear songs from Madam Butterfly. I'll leave the ipod comment alone because that'll just get me ranting on how much I hate the things and how they make society so self-involved and segregated.

    The presence of parm in the restaurant doesn't necessarily mean that it goes on a particular dish. If I order a vegetarian pasta and then see that someone else has a pizza with prosciutto, does that mean that I can then demand prosciutto on my pasta because it's there and other people are getting some?

    You parm lovers are lucky I don't run a restaurant like Terroni. Because I'd keep a stock of those stupid green Kraft parm containers under the counter and anyone who whined for cheese where it wasn't meant to go would get the Kraft stuff. You want to ruin the dish - you might as well REALLY ruin it.

  10. NF on August 26, 2008 at 1:16 pm

    I'm not sure I agree with your new analogy either, but I think I'll leave the competing analogies thing alone at this point.

    Incidentally, for the sake of this argument, I'll add that I, too, hate the proliferation of ipods, Blackberries and the like in our society, and certainly wouldn't dream of pulling one out at the opera (then again, I'm not likely to be sitting at the opera). And being Italian, I fully appreciate that good Italian food is fresh, pure and simple, and that, yes, in a perfect world, parmesean doesn't belong on certain things (and that Kraft garbage makes me shudder almost as much as sugar does in a tomato sauce).

    But on the other hand, in the average Italian home - not to mention just about every Italian restaurant, great and mediocre, in North America - parmesean is as much a condiment as is salt and pepper. If I spent hours slaving in the kitchen to whip up what I thought was a masterpiece of a dish, flavoured (to my taste) perfectly, would it not be completely unreasonable of me to throw a fit if my dining guest asked for the salt shaker, or an extra grind of pepper?

  11. Jeni on August 26, 2008 at 3:18 pm

    I was pretty astonished at the vitriolic nature of some of the comments posted "elsewhere in the blogosphere," so it was good to read this article. I think it provided some valuable counterpoint that was missing in the other online discussions.

    We'll have to agree to disagree re: parm, though. Possibly one of the most enjoyable food experiences I've had in Toronto involved participating in a cooking class with Romagna Mia's Gabriele Paganelli in which every single dish was designed to feature Parmigiano-Reggiano (including the dessert, which was a parm gelato served with a balsamic/honey drizzle). Amazing.

  12. Sheryl Kirby on August 26, 2008 at 3:38 pm

    Parm as a Condiment

    NF - It wouldn't be unreasonable of you at all - if the guests asked for salt, pepper, whathaveyou - BEFORE tasting the dish. My husband reaches for the pepper before tasting his food all the time, and I regularly give him shit for it.

    Jeni - I didn't mean that I hated parmesan, just that, as NF points out, it has come to be thought of as the ubiquitous Italian condiment and people expect it to be on every Italian dish, regardless of its appropriateness in conjunction with the other ingredients. Parmesan is an amazing cheese, but it's strong and distinctive - it doesn't go with everything.

    You know what I'd really like to see, although it will never happen because restaurant servers just don't have the time - is when people request parmesan on a dish that isn't intended to have it, someone from the restaurant takes the time to sit down and do a tutored tasting to demonstrate how the cheese overwhelms the dish - ie. try some plain, try some with parm - see how you can't taste the fish or anything else of note in the dish, etc.

  13. Marah on August 27, 2008 at 9:30 pm

    Utter nonsense. It's fine to have a vision and care about your heritage, but all those paragraphs of food snobbery still don't adequately explain why they will leave off the mushrooms if I'm allergic to them, but if I merely detest the taste of mushrooms I'm SOL. "The customers don't understand what we're doing"?! Oh, please! Because anyone who disagrees must be too stupid to understand?

    I appreciate knowing what the trained expert thinks goes together, but as long as I'm the one paying, I want to be able to leave off the ingredients that aren't to my taste. And vision be damned, I want a Diet Coke--not sugared pop, not water, and not wine.

    And you're right, if I don't like the way they do things, I'm free to spend my money elsewhere. And I do. Frankly, Terroni's food isn't nearly good enough to earn them this level of snobbery.

  14. Sheryl Kirby on August 28, 2008 at 7:44 am

    Hey Marah,

    I'm confused... if you don't eat at Terroni anymore anyway, why are you even commenting here?

    I'm frankly astounded by the number of people who feel compelled to be ugly and mean and critical just because there is an outlet that allows them to do so. Terroni's not for you - fair enough. But why publicly slam them because they have a different opinion from you on what they want their service to be? Seriously - what do you expect to gain from such comments? That Mammoliti is going to stand at the front door handing out cans of diet pop just because *you* think he should serve it in *his* restaurant??? You're completely entitled to not like what Terroni does or how they do it - but I really don't get the anger and bitchiness. Just go somewhere else that will serve you what you want.

  15. Fran Z on August 28, 2008 at 11:57 am

    Wow. Hats off to you Sheryl Kirby! I thoroughly enjoyed your article and agree whole-heartedly that posts on other blog sites have gotten, well, terribly ugly. According to their horrific accounts it's a wonder Terroni is still in business.

    I have to address Marah's comment. I've worked in a number of restaurants for 15 years--including Terroni. Cosimo's comments about modifications causing mistakes is bang on. As soon as the line has to leave one thing off or add another, a mistake is bound to occur and it messes everything up. Plus, there are 30 pizzas from which to choose! For a small, intimate restaurant, that's not so much a problem, but I'd wager that nobody in the city does as many covers in a night as Terroni. It's unreal how fast our cooks are. One mistake and everybody suffers.

    And besides, I've never sensed an ounce of insincerity from Cosimo. He's a passionate man who just wants to feed people the food he grew up eating and the food his ancestors have prepared for hundreds of years! Is that such a terrible thing in this day and age? I think not, and judging from the line-ups at all 4 Terroni locations, I bet there are a few others that agree.

  16. Marah on August 28, 2008 at 9:34 pm

    Why did I post? Because I didn't realize that this was supposed to be a love-fest, and that dissenting opinions were unwelcome.

    And the whole "I know what you should like better than you do" attitude comes off far more bitchy that I do.

    No, I don't expect anyone to "hand out" anything. But yes, *I* would like an option besides water for diabetics in *his* restaurant. Is that really bizarre enough to warrant three question marks? It's not like I'm asking for a roasted elephant ear (sprinkled with parmesan, of course).

    Fran,

    I never said or implied that Cosimo is insincere; I said that he comes off as a food snob who thinks that anyone who disagrees with him is too stupid to understand what he's trying to do. It's possible that the way he comes off in the article does not accurately portray what he's like in person, but I have only his words in this article to judge him by.

    Yes, people line up to eat there. OTOH, far more people eat Pizza Pizza; does that imply that Pizza Pizza's pizza is better? I didn't think so.

  17. Sheryl Kirby on August 29, 2008 at 7:43 am

    Marah,

    Not a love-fest, but not a bitch-fest either. You want to whine and complain without substantiating your arguments, you can go somewhere else. The diabetic point is the first valid argument you've made with regards to the diet soda issue, and while I still support a restaurateur's right to decide what goes on his menu, or not, at least it's a more logical point than "I waaaaannnnt it, because I'm the cussssssstoMER!!!Wah!!!" Nice save.

  18. Marah on August 29, 2008 at 11:26 pm

    So it's ok to want something that won't kill me, but daring to have a differing opinion is "whining," and any food preferences not necessitated by health issues make me an entitled brat. Got it.

  19. Sheryl Kirby on August 30, 2008 at 8:56 am

    Marah,

    Yes, that's pretty much it. As a food allergy sufferer and a former caterer, I can vouch for the fact that there's most definitely a difference between people who can potentially die because they accidentally eat something that makes their throat swell up to the point where they can't breathe, and someone too lazy and self-entitled to pick the mushrooms off their pizza. That anyone would even **think** to compare the two clearly demonstrates a level of self-involvement that terrifies me.

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